Nov 01, 2018
Q: I just made my first batch of Liposomal Vitamin C. It’s really thin, like milk. Is it too thin?

A: Bill Davis There is several issues affecting or affected by its thickness. 1) - If you are NOT going to sonicate it following blending (in other words doing the blender only process) it does NOT matter how thick it is but thicker is likely better to make sure there is adequate PC to encapsulate all the payload (vitamin C). 2) - If for some reason you want thinner or thicker, remember that lecithin is, among other things, a thickener. More lecithin = thicker, less lecithin makes it thinner. Adjust recipe amount accordingly but remember you need the lecithin to create the liposomes so don't reduce lecithin too much. 10-20% should be enough reduction. 3) - If you are going to sonicate using an ultrasonic machine the mixture thickness/thinness DOES matter if you do it correctly because if it is TOO THICK you will not be able to degas the mixture before sonicating and the sonication will be less or totally ineffective. 4) - When I make LVC I adjust the lecithin amount to end up with a thickness/thinness about the same as heavy cream. That allows easy & effective and visible degassing thus allowing maximum beneficial effect of sonication which improves LVC quality by reducing the liposome size and increasing % encapsulation. 5) - The effect of lecithin as a thickener will vary from brand to brand, manufacturers batch to batch so each time you buy new lecithin the quantity needed to get the correct thickness may vary so retest. 6) - re your 'thin like milk' result I'd say it will degas easily and make sonication very effective but a little thicker would be OK.

Charissa Okerstrom Bill Davis wow. Thank you. On my ultrasonic cleaner, there is a “degas” setting. I didn’t use that. Should I have?

Bill Davis Degassing is a standard and important processing step in the ultrasonic cleaning industry where they want maximum ultrasonic energy transfer through the liquid medium (mostly water with cleaning chemicals in their case) to do the intended work of cleaning. Air bubbles in the US tank water and/or LVC mixture in a beaker (in our case) basically render the US energy less effective or not effective at all because those often invisible air bubbles & dissolved oxygen in the water and LVC are compressible and therefore absorb and dissipate the US energy taking it away from making the liposomes. I personally believe the 'degassing' function on US machines is inadequate (based on the few I have actually seen - mine do NOT have it. It's a process not a button) and I follow a more thorough industry standard method of degassing the US tank water and verify LVC mixture degassing visually as you can see in some of the pictures I have posted here previously. Yup, I admit it. I am a somewhat anal, over-the-top, technical, sometimes perfectionist, engineer type guy (just ask my wife of 53 years). I do my LVC the best I can to achieve the best product with the most possible benefit because there is too much at stake to do a half baked product. So use your US machine degassing function as it wont hurt but I followed that with mine then followed up with my degassing process and saw lots of gas being expelled beyond that the typical 10 minute built in 'degassing function' did. In fact it did not even seem to touch the intended purpose. My conclusion was that the built-in degassing function is basically worthless for removing all of the dissolved gas in the liquid.

Bill Davis P.S. I'm not known for being a man of few words so sorry for my long post.

Christopher Whitworth Bill Davis What are your thoughts on putting it straight into the ultrasonic after blending without a beaker?

Bill Davis That will work. There are the two standard methods used in the ultrasonic cleaning industry. 1) - The DIRECT METHOD, where the liquid cleaning medium (usually water with appropriate cleaning chemicals) and the item to be cleaned are placed directly in the US tank as you suggest. It seems simpler and more direct and many use that Direct Method for making LVC. Method 2) - INDIRECT METHOD where the US tank is filled with water and the item to be cleaned is placed in a container (frequently a glass beaker). The item to be cleaned is placed in the beaker often submerged in some potent special cleaning chemical even acid. The beaker is suspended in the water in the US tank. The US waves or vibrations then pass through the water in the tank, through the thin glass beaker walls then into the chemical cleaning bath in the beaker and on to the item being cleaned. So either standard method is applicable for making LVC using a US machine. There are of course advantages & disadvantages of both. I always use the indirect method because of its many advantages but BOTH work equally as well. So your choice.